Official Luthiers Forum!

Don,
I second what everyone here has said. Please stay here and help us newbie's. Your sense of humor is the best and would be sorely missed. I wish you the best in whatever makes you happy.
Tracy

Don, When is the going out of busness sale?

Don -
I do not know what to tell you. But I realized early in my guitarmaking
hobby that making guitars is, in many ways, just like playing them -
unless you get real lucky you will just never make a good living doing it!
Music (and lutherie) is, in my opinion, something you just absolutely have
to love doing. There is, in the end, very little monetary reward but there is
an enormous reward the first time you string up the new baby or play the
new song.
I have always approached building with all of that in mind. If I sell and
make money that is terrific, if not, I love it anyway. It has always been my
stress reliever not builder. And for the most part the guitars ultimately
get sold.
I guess my suggestion to you, is to take a few months off from building.
Stay away from the shop for a while. Enjoy life. I do not know you well (we
met at Sympsoium and a restaurant at Symposium) but I do believe that
you will be back with better and better instruments - because you love it
and for no other reason! Take care, my friend.

_________________
Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

The double-whammy is that your "day gig" boss is a (expletives deleted) King Kong jerk. I have had a couple of truly despicable bosses, and can tell you that a situation like that at work can be like a cancer in your life. It can take the colors out of the rainbow, the belly laugh away from the joke, and can even deflate the joy in being with friends and loved ones.

You have to get out!

Now, of course what I'm talking about is your day gig. Yes, take some time off from lutherie for a while, but not because of the negative side of lutherie. Take some time to contact every one you know in your area, and network until you find a new job. Once you have that cancer cured, then check again to see what you want to do with lutherie.

Good luck, I hope you can get out of this situation.

Dennis
DennisLeahy38610.9172685185

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Don:

Ok you really did it this time. Send it back, right now ...yes, you know what I am referring to ... the Whirlpool timer...

I think most of us (me included) have faced your dilemma. Breaks are good for the soul. Don't sweat the small stuff and remember know matter what happens ...
God is still in control!

We love ya Bro!

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Don,
I've felt exactly what you have. Took a few years off. And when I came back, I enjoyed it even more than ever. I think you'll always build--and after you first posted this afternoon, I went over to your web site and looked around again. Looks like lutherie is in your blood, and one can't work at that high level without a real love being there. But a step back might really help to clarify objectives, and cause you to enjoy the pursuit more than ever.
As for this boss from Hades, you simply need to introduce him to guitar building. Could either be therapy (for the guy)---or revenge(for you)?    Steve Kinnaird38610.9580092593

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Don,
You'll be missed but do what ya gotta do. A break could change things for you. I've been where your at with sports and actually I was there with the whole tonewood biz not too long ago too. A little time away can do wonders. I went back to both and a healthier state of mind let me excel far beyond the rut I was in before I left.

_________________
CVT Inc.
A tour of our shop (Somewhat outdated)
My Personal eBay profile. BCWoodBug

Don,
My prayers and hopes are that the decision you make will bring peace and contentment. Stress is a killer. Avoid it at all costs when possible.
But stay with us. New guys like me need grizzled old veterans to keep them under control.
Peace brother!

Don, I think you are making a good decision. And whoever told you to find a better job upthread was exactly right. A while back, I was really unhappy in my job and looked around for a new one. Good things happened as a result even though I'm still in the same place.

When I quit the Air Force just over a decade ago, I had a few choices. Trying to make it as a luthier was one of them. But I had always worked as an engineer, and I had a compulsion to get my Ph.D. -- so I did that instead of building guitars. I love my job, but it has lots of stress, mostly because you need to come up with new ideas or the money stops coming in. My wife would support another career change if it would reduce my stress level and make me happy. I can't see that as being the case with making guitars.

I've pretty much decided to stick with engineering as long as I can, because that's what I'm good at. Unfortunately, this has meant that my hobby projects go unfinished because there is always something more I want to do at work. And at home, there is always another project to take care of before I can goof off.

I kind of see the equipment I have as being a retirement plan, i.e., I need something to do when I retire, and that's my plan. And I'm not going to want to spend the money on it when I retire, so getting equipped now seems like a good idea.

Sorry this post turned out to be about me, but my message is to build at whatever level makes you happy. Walking away from something like this can be such a relief. On the other hand, if you set a budget and treat it as a hobby, that can be a lot of fun too. I used to have an allowance, and that was all I could spend on my hobbies. When I went back to school, I lost my allowance and haven't gotten it back It solves a lot of arguments though.

What steve said about your boss, introduce him to a guitar, the back side of it over his head when you say I quit.
I wish you well Don. Time heals all things so long as you give it time. I'm sure your will.
Something a great friend of mine would tell me when I would be stressed
"You'll make it."

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Don, can I echo the others and say that whatever you decide to do don't stop posting on here, once a luthier, always a luthier. Once an OLFer......

If you decide to take the hobby route, then just relax into it and build the guitars you want. That's the way I go about it, no customers (except me) to worry about, no deadlines to meet, just an enjoyable process with hopefully a happy outcome. I spend on it what I would do on any other hobby, and I have a tangible object of (relative) beauty to show for it at the end. I build about 4 instruments a year, and if yours start piling up, follow the route that I took, following Stan's inspiration, and find a derserving home for them with veterans or young talented kids.

Whatever decision you make don't make it in haste, just mothball your gear and you know sooner or later it will start calling to you.

I know you'll end up making the best decision for you. Good luck.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Don, maybe take my approch I work full time as a engineer here in the oil field. I actively seek commisions when and wher I can get them but limit my self to 3 of four a year max typicaly only one or two a year and then some building for myself I require large deposit and give no exact promise of delivery dates. I never let the luthierie become stressfull. Keep it slow. Never work on more than one at a time and let your self enjoy the building

When I first started reading this I thought "man, I'm glad my wife has a good paying job so I don't need to feel the stress as much. I started this as a business cause I lost my Job but my wife can support the family so I just bring in the extra's. Whell My wife got called in to a meeting last night where they wee told of probable cutbacks at the hospital where she works meaning she may loose her job. If that happens We'll be moving and I'll also be out of business for a while. Now I feel the stress big time.

Don...I feel your pain. We've all gone through career crises and they are incredibly stressful. I agree with the sage wisdom put forth to go slow, take your time and let the guitar building thing come back to you. In the meantime, concentrate on getting rid of your major stressor...the boss from hell.

A couple other things you might consider:
...teach guitar building at a local high school or community college. I'll bet you could inspire some kids and at the same time help with your motivation
...make and sell jigs...you're one of the best!
...continue to find and sell tonewood...I think of you each time I play my new parlor guitar with the sweet Redwood top.

And finally, keep your hand in building slowly and for yourself. At any rate, keep coming in to the forum and impart your wisdom and humor.

Good luck, bud!

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Don,

I agree with those who are advising to go slow. You've invested a lot of time energy and money into lutherie. It's not going to cost you anything to let the wood and tools sit there, even if it's for a couple of years. After backing away from it for a while it will be easier to see if and where you want to go.

Also JJ made a good suggestion in that you could teach classes. You've got the wood, you've got the knowledge and you would be surprised at how much your own skills improve when you teach others a subject.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck.

Roy

Don, I understand your situation completely as I've been facing most of the same issues with work, finances and time managemnet. At the end of each day, either the environmentalist or farmers hate me, its a no win situation. I started building to relieve stress and you, Tim, Bruce, Lance and Bob were great sources of ideas and methods here at the OLF. However, after seeing the work you guys were putting out it also became more discouraging to continue. I forgot why I started and turned it into more stress (I need more more tools, I need more wood, I need a better shop, etc.) I am now putting it back into perspective and if I do occasionally sell a guitar, great. If I don't, so be it (some kid needs a good guitar). Sometimes you just have to ease back on the throttle and coast. I did the same thing with darts and have now joined a league that is so bad we don't even consider winning Hang in there, you have a lot to offer and I'm sure things are going to work out.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Don,

I'm sorry to hear that there are some stressful things going on for you as of late.

Reading your post, I thought of what happens when I go into my shop. Sometimes I get jazzed about the guitar on my bench and don't come out of the shop for the entire evening, day, or weekend. Other times, I say "I just don't feel like it right now. I'd rather go watch a Frasier re-run, or some stupid thing like that." I enjoy building guitars because I only do it when I want to.

It doesn't sound to me like you're quitting building guitars; it sounds like you have decided to quit forcing yourself to build. It's hard to argue with that.

Good luck,
Kelby.

Kelby, you're pretty close to it. Sometimes the pressures of life can be overwhelming, and then when we add self-imposed pressure, it takes the joy away. After I finished the last guitar for a customer (I was very happy with it, and proud of the work, and the customer was a great guy) I was very burned out from spending day and night tweaking this and that to get it just right. So I took some time off and then felt like doing some stuff again, something for myself (my resonator). I've been enjoying that so much because it was for me, and was something I've been wanting. In short, it's been therapeutic. I missed that. I haven't built anything for me since guitar #1. I realized how much I missed doing it for the enjoyment.

I wanted also to take a minute and say thanks to everyone here who have been encouraging and supportive of my letting folks know what I was going through and what I was planning as far as stepping back for awhile. Except Tom Dowey who obviously just wants my stash of wood.

Anyway, thanks all for your well-wishes and your friendship. That's what makes the OLF so great, the best builder's web community on the internet.
You can't imagine how great it feels to have this kind of support and caring during what has been a pretty darn tough time in my life.

You guys are the best.

Don

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=Don Williams]After I finished the last guitar for a customer (I was very happy with it, and proud of the work, and the customer was a great guy) I was very burned out from spending day and night tweaking this and that to get it just right. So I took some time off and then felt like doing some stuff again, something for myself (my resonator). I've been enjoying that so much because it was for me, and was something I've been wanting. In short, it's been therapeutic. I missed that. I haven't built anything for me since guitar #1. I realized how much I missed doing it for the enjoyment.[/QUOTE]

Don, I haven't much felt like adding my two bits worth, being content to read the various wisdom and perspectives of the many talented people here.

But if I would have added comments earlier, I would have recommended =exactly= what it is that you are doing now.

I have spent my entire life pursuing creative endeavors of one sort or another. First it was art, then music, then photography, then writing, then machining/welding/gunsmithing, then back to music, and finally guitar building. If there's one thing I've learned from all this, it is that there are periods where it is an absolute requirement that I take a break to recharge my creative batteries. It sounds to me you've discovered this for yourself.

In a way, I envy the accountants of the world -- not just them, obviously, but those folks who can do the same thing, day in and day out, for their entire lives. I can't. Doesn't matter what sort of job it is, either. It could be a dream job, and eventually I'd start feeling burned out, needing a long break. That's just the ways I am. So, I can see why you are going through this.

My recommendations are that you take as long of a break as you need. But DO NOT sell your tools or your wood. Cuz one of these days, you'll get out in your shop and start piddling around, and before you know it, you'll have knocked out another guitar, and you're gonna feel really great about it, cuz it will be your best ever.

Best,

Michael

_________________
Live to Play, Play to Live

I can very much identify with this, since I turned a passionate hobby into a business and a job, back in 1997. I've been very successful as a business, but I've also ceased being passionate or having fun. I was backed up well over two years with orders, sold out in minutes at shows, and had begun a factory collaboration on some of my designs. That's generally considered the end of the rainbow in most crafts. And I guess it is and maybe that's the problem. I had accomplished everything I set out to accomplish and wasn't happy as a result.

I was forced to make the same knives I designed over two years earlier, again and again. I was no longer working for the creative muse within me, but was simply in the business of knocking out someone else's expensive toy, of making a buck.

Earlier this year I cancelled all my orders (I never took deposits thankfully), and have stepped away from the shop to try to clear my head and decide what I want to be when I grow up. (Most people have accomplished that by age 65 - I haven't.)

That situation is in fact what brought me to be here, because I find guitars a completely fascinating blend of science and art, where functional originality is very difficult to attain. I am, here, where I was with knifemaking back in the '80's, right up until 1997.

1997-2000 were tough times for me, with absolutely no cash flow (except out) and the humiliation of going to shows with 30 knives and hauling 29 of them home again, having sold that one to a discount-seeking bottom-feeder during the last hour of the show. Beginning in 2000 and definitely becoming very focussed on 9-11, I found my niche and began making knives that incorporated what I knew how to do best and what other people wanted. By 2002 I was completely buried in work, stopped accepting new orders, and began to lose my passion for knifemaking.

It became clear to me that money really wasn't why I was doing it, though I used money as an excuse to get into knifemaking seriously. I simply enjoyed designing and making knives that were both functional and attractive (that same blend of science and art). When I was no longer doing that, but only manufacturing copies of the knives I designed the week after 9-11, I realized this wasn't fun anymore, and I quit.

I will be going to a knife show in a couple weeks, one where very few people will expect me to be. I intend to have some fun, talk new designs, sell the few knives I'll have with me. I'll be talking to friends and doing my best to recharge my batteries. I hope I can regain my interest in making knives, but it's definitely going to take a paradigm shift to get me there.

I have a sense you're about where I was back in that 1997-2000 period when I really didn't have a focus to my craft, just loved doing it, and wasn't certain I could pull it off. If my wife didn't have a very good job I couldn't have done even that. I had some talent; it was undeveloped. I had passion; that doesn't pay any bills. I had very real doubts that I could ever compete with the people at the top of that profession; I was wrong; I could. It just required a proper focus and finding a way to broadly apply the things I did best, while simplifying the things I found difficult. In retrospect, I now realize I could have accomplished everything I accomplished in 1997-2000 working fulltime just as well by working a couple more years parttime, and it would have been a whole lot less stressful.

I plan to do the same thing with guitars. I don't plan on carving necks, I don't plan on doing setups, and I'm not certain I'll do my own finishes. I want to focus on the sound box and put all my efforts there, while letting experts do those other things for me. As I gain experience I may do some of those other things, but not now, not when I want more than anything to have fun. Tedium is not compatible with my adult ADD. And most importantly I don't plan on making any money at it. I don't plan on screwing up another perfectly good hobby.

Don, you have talent and originality - witness the guitars you've made, that great Smilie Uke, and your Binding Jig. You're on the mountain with a difficult traverse ahead of you, the worst part of which is your job, and you have two choices - continue or not. Here's what I'll bet. If you're not making guitars, you'll need something else to occupy your creative juices. You like music and guitars and there is probably nothing else that can grip you like this craft has. You just need it to be fun, and stop (for the time being) thinking of it as a profession or a money maker. Get back to having fun. Have a whole lot of fun. Develop a well-recognized name for yourself as an amateur with unique offerings, THEN re-evaluate the prospects of a profession.

Then, depending on your decision, you need to make certain you don't let the job of guitar making screw up an otherwise great hobby. Keep it passionate. I can't emphasize that enough - to everyone.

I feel your pain, bud.

for several days i have pondered whether to peply to your post. it has caused me to do a bit of looking back at the manner in which i have arrived where i am. i really have very little to add to the wise counsel offered above, but here goes.

almost exactly 20 years ago i was in my third year as ceo of medium size construction organization and was developing a significant national profile. but i was sleeping in hotels and eating dinners in restraurants through too much of every week. it was a great, if very stressful, job. unlike you, i had a very innovative and supportive president and board, but whilst i enjoyed the work, eventually i realized the lifestyle was not for me. unfortunately this epiphany did not come before it caused a lot of problems in my family.

i stepped away, which necessitated a restructuring of many things, mostly financial. but i was a lot happier.

for a while i operated a small consultancy, but all the while i looked at those things i had enjoyed through my life and resolved to make whatever money i needed doing what i enjoyed, and to order my priorities so that i would enjoy doing it. one of those things was horses, another was rugby, and another was the guitars. so over the past 20 years i've earned my money training horses and riders, shoeing horses and working on their teeth, coaching rugby, and working on and building stringed instruments. i haven't become rich, but that worries me not.

as always, i only build for myself or on commission, mostly for customers for whom i've done repair work. like michael, i don't give fixed completion dates. and i deliberately work slowly.

yes, get a new job, but i wouldn't recommend rod's advice to introduce your current boss to the back side of a guitar no matter how much cathartic relief the action might offer, especially if the instrument used is a solid body!!!

and jj's suggestions are first rate.

but whatever you do, step away from the stress; it will first kill your joy in life, and then you.crazymanmichael38613.3308449074